tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4241010404351033906.post4304497884939492115..comments2024-03-24T16:14:25.138-07:00Comments on Mythical Strength: AN ARGUMENT AGAINST BEGINNER PROGRAMS AND ABBREVIATED TRAININGEmevashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14983296057210465714noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4241010404351033906.post-66722817497230755682016-04-07T08:02:59.001-07:002016-04-07T08:02:59.001-07:00I appreciate the comment Paul. Abbreviated traini...I appreciate the comment Paul. Abbreviated training gets pushed onto so many trainees who don't want or need it. Glad that the Kroc programming has worked out for you. It's amazing what a little more volume and some intensity of effort can do, along with some veggies.Emevashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14983296057210465714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4241010404351033906.post-85308294868250643692016-04-06T16:05:26.670-07:002016-04-06T16:05:26.670-07:00Emevas,
Really enjoying this series of posts.
I...Emevas,<br /><br />Really enjoying this series of posts. <br /><br />I think that anoher piece in this beginners programming is that a lot of beginners goals are different from the goals of abbreviated training. Or on the surface they appear to be.<br /><br />A lot of guys join a gym to improve aesthetics. I think that a program that is high volume and balanced on key lifts plus a lot of effort getting a diet dialed in would impact on aesthetics for a lot of trainees. <br /><br />I was watching old time strong men and happened across a group of youtube videos on gymnasts and the guys that train on bars outdoors. The difference in athletes and the obvious strength in both groups was amazing. <br /><br />I have abandoned abbreviated training and now use Matt Krocs (thanks for that) higher volume different rep schemes and increasing progression. I can tell you that 5 sets of chins at 10 reps with only 2.5 kgs is far more brutal than the 2 sets I used to do with 20kgs attached. <br /><br />A high set finisher of squats at bodyweight smashes me far more than 3 sets of 5 and long rests at much higher weight. <br /><br />By the way, 8 cups of veges a day, steamed and raw seems to promote recovery. <br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12220016278956798926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4241010404351033906.post-51120405223169289422016-04-06T11:50:36.943-07:002016-04-06T11:50:36.943-07:00It's also what makes coaching high schoolers s...It's also what makes coaching high schoolers so goddamn frustrating, haha.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13432971025745616490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4241010404351033906.post-32845350552758767722016-04-06T11:10:18.276-07:002016-04-06T11:10:18.276-07:00It's life. It's all futility. I look at ...It's life. It's all futility. I look at what I write now and I KNOW that 17 year old me wouldn't have listened to any of it. I'm not going to convince anyone to do things my way, and I'll only get those that already agree with me to agree harder, but at least the revelation happened at some point. Some folks will go their whole lives before they learn.<br /><br />Sometimes the hard way is the only way to learn. It's a shame how much of this game gets played when we are young and stupid, haha.<br />Emevashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14983296057210465714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4241010404351033906.post-70843537536597412812016-04-05T21:35:38.616-07:002016-04-05T21:35:38.616-07:00Fuck yeah man. Honestly, it bites for me particula...Fuck yeah man. Honestly, it bites for me particularly because I basically had the dream scenario. Former big league football player football HC, took weights class with him all 4 years, on good terms, had an awesome weightroom (4 power racks, platforms, bumpers, GHR, hammer strength machines, etc), BUT I was TOO FUCKING FULL OF MYSELF TO LISTEN TO HIM. In college and now as a post-grad, I still hit him up when I'm back in town, get a lift there, pick his brain about coaching stuff, but back then it was all "hm, coach wants me to squat buuuuut bench and biceps sounds like more fun, I can always throw in some leg press later." I loved lifting, benched 225 as a 140lb junior, and built the foundation of a lifelong habit and semi-career, but christ, who knows where I'd be if I'd actually been willing to receive his coaching then. Kills me.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13432971025745616490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4241010404351033906.post-71700570883825453152016-04-05T11:30:33.704-07:002016-04-05T11:30:33.704-07:00This was an excellent reply. Lots of good stuff i...This was an excellent reply. Lots of good stuff in it. I do need to clarify that I consider a beginner lifter a different animal from a beginner athlete, and one of the issues (which I've spoken of before) that you brought up well here is that a lot of folks just jump into lifting period. That you are able to run something like 5/3/1 with high school athletes shows the significant difference, and though coaching is a substantial variable, so too is simply the ability to BE an athlete, which a lot of couch jockies just plain don't have.<br /><br /><br />You're absolutely right that these programs remain popular due to their ease to recommend. This allows so many beginners to "establish cred" online and be looked upon as an authority simply by having AN answer on how to train. This is doubled with the constant employment of the "No True Scotsman" argument whenever anything goes wrong.<br /><br /><br />You're stalling on the program? That can't be, because you don't stall on the program when you run it correctly. You therefore must not be running it correctly. Got fat? You must not be eating right, because when you eat right with the program, you don't get fat.<br /><br /><br />Zero critical thinking or ability required, and meanwhile you're now "in" with the forum group. <br /><br /><br /><br />Man, I just really like your reply, haha. It's something that can be talked to for a long time. Thanks for bringing up all those points.Emevashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14983296057210465714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4241010404351033906.post-84895827169000056992016-04-04T14:53:55.467-07:002016-04-04T14:53:55.467-07:00Great stuff. My sole reservation about recommendin...Great stuff. My sole reservation about recommending that a rank beginner do 5/3/1 or WS4SB is the fact that they often aren't good enough at the technique to safely push max reps/weight. HOWEVER, that is by no means the fault of the program. I use 5/3/1 (okay, "Bigger, Faster, Stronger" but same thing) with the HS kids I coach in the weight-room. THEY do max reps safely and correctly because they have a coach.<br /><br />The reason I think Starting Strength & Co. programs get recommended is because, 1. they're easy to recommend and 2. they don't actually push the trainee, so they require less coaching.<br /><br />Re: 1. there's nothing as easy to recommend as "ok, go do the same exercises 3x/wk and add 5-10lbs each time until you can't, then start over again." For some reason, people think that just because they lift weights, they're immediately qualified to coach and advise others, and that's the lowest effort way to feel like a coach without actually doing or knowing a goddamn thing. I know you've run into this in /r/fitness so I won't rant too long on that.<br /><br />2. because these programs don't really push the trainee, they don't really need to know how to do the lifts to still go to the gym. Hence why you get people talking about 145lb squat "plateaus." They've neither learned to do the lift correctly nor learned how to push themselves past 60% effort. If you want to push it, you have to actually know how to lift, and that means either spending a lot of time figuring out yourself (as you and I did) or getting someone to teach you. Neither of those yield instant gratification, so most people don't do them.<br /><br />If you're a beginner, like literally every single other skill or ability that exists, you're going to have to spend time, money, or both to learn that skill. People who want easy free answers on the internet will get what they paid for.<br /><br />I don't know a single goddamn person who has ever been objectively good at lifting in under a year, hell make it two years, without receiving some amount of coaching. If you're lucky, your HS sports coach knew what they were doing and you were mature enough to shut up and listen to them. If you aren't lucky, you paid someone to teach you and keep you on the right track. Everyone else spent a lot of time trying and learning, not expecting to be Jesus of the Barbell in a year.<br /><br />WillUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13432971025745616490noreply@blogger.com